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 England U21 ......

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Rob@Inter
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PostSubject: England U21 ......   Sun 9 Jun - 8:54

....... totally inept.

I also don't really buy the idea that they lost because the senior team had Rodwell, Jones and Oxlade-Chamberlain. Italy have El Shaarawy, De Sciglio and Balotelli playing for their senior team in both a World Cup qualifier and the Confederations Cup. Arguably those 3 are a much bigger loss than England's 3. Are we falling even further behind and what does it say about the future national team?
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 9 Jun - 10:58

It is a difficult scenario as it can be argued both ways in my eyes.

On one hand, Pearce is right in that if he had all the players available to him, like most countries force them to, then it would have been a different kettle of fish.

Jones, Oxlade, Wilshere, Rodwell, Welbeck, Shaw, Sterling, McManaman, Kelly, Gardner, Hughes, Lansbury and you could argue Zaha who clearly wasn't fit.

We still wouldn't have won it, but we would have easily polished off Norway and possibly Italy too.

What is wrong I think, is the attitude of the FA. In Spain, a player got banned for 6 months for not turning up for an U18 game. All players in countries like Holland and Spain think it is an honour to play for the U21s whether they have been in the senior squad or not.
Our players seem to think it is a 'step down' to do that..

Media issue? Players believe their own hype too quickly?

Either way it was archaic football and Pearce should go.

Have we ever had a more dire duo in charge of our men's national teams?,
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 9 Jun - 15:02

I agree that the FA have a lot to answer for. At the same time I think the Premier League does too. The stat has been all over the papers that England has the lowest % of minutes played by Under 21's of the home nationality of any of the major leagues. And if you look at the squad England took there are 4 Liverpool players who don't get a lot of playing time, 2 from Chelsea who have mostly been on loan in the lower leagues but even so Butland, Caulker, Henderson, Shelvey, Wickham should be a spine that delivers more than they have in Israel. Interesting there's only 1 player from United and City together ..... too much focus on scouring the rest of the globe?

I think Germany missing Jung, Gundogan, Gotze, Schurrle, Bittencourt, Leitner, Draxler and Ter Stegen is probably a bigger miss than England are suffering. Particularly the 53 full caps shared between Gotze, Gundogan and Schurrle.

Italy is a lesser case but Balotelli, El Shaarawy and De Sciglio is a total of 31 caps and not to be sniffed at given it contains Italy's starting strikers. Plus the added gaps of Fabbrini, Poli, Bonaventura, Perin and Santon all of whom are full internationals. Basically I think all of the nations (except possibly Spain) are short of players and arguably players who could make more impact than those missing by England.
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 9 Jun - 19:09

Basically our squad doesn't match up to the big boys in the tournament, but the one we do have, under performed massively. We should have at least got out the group. Disappointing.

Looking forward to a summer of beating the Aussies though. First up the Lions, then the cricketers.

Really hope we paste them, especially in the cricket.
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 9 Jun - 20:20

The one dayer was a nice start. Think the Ashes will be excellent because the Aussies never quit but England look much stronger. As for the Lions ..... very excited but shame we've had some injuries.

Just watch Holland batter Russia and started on Germany v Spain ..... how did this work before Sky+? Will - how many of this Dutch team do you have?? Looking forward to seeing them play Spain. Holtby looks very good whoever has him. Think he'll be good for Spurs when settles in.
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Mon 10 Jun - 8:17

We have several probs in this country. I thought against Norway we tried to play good football 70ish% possession is what the media want but...

1) since Italia 90 the national sides have been media driven. the media says sack the boss he gets the sack, they say drop someone he's dropped, they say pick someone, he gets picked, wtf ! Pearce had an unfit Zaha as his best attacking option so he played him upfront, media says big mistake should have played him out wide. Now they are calling for Pearce to be sacked. shoot the fucking media I say.

2) and our big problem is we don't have any out and out strikers and the strikers we do have don't play regularly for their clubs in top flight football week in week out. The rest is all smoke screens, the Premier League & FA must force clubs to play more English players, but that ain't never going to happen is it, cos it's all money driven.

3) in terms of playing experience our under21s are more like under17s cos the players in our country in that age group never play, look at Zaha now, played in the Championship last year, did very well, developing well, now gone to sit on United's bench, development stops, media hype takes over, and the England team suffers again.

4) Too many of our international players play out of position for the England team. As a player you get to know one position expertly but the England team don't seem to have a style anymore. Players bought in are often played out of position and have to learn the current managers playing style. We should decide on a playing style and breed players for that style. What was wrong with the Alf Ramsey style, power, pace, work ethic, tough tackling and strength with a little skill thrown in at the important positions. And Alf didn't give a shit what the media said or how often they said it.

5) ask yourself this, how many englishmen own spanish, italian, german or french newspapers or web based media outlets, and how many foreigners own our newspapers and web based media outlets. Fans of English football should stop buying newspapers and boycott websites like Sky.

But most of all english clubs should be forced to play englishmen, none of this home-grown crap either wtf is that all about.
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Mon 10 Jun - 8:19

Long live the old days, yay, so says the old guy.
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Mon 10 Jun - 23:08

Paul Hemmings wrote:
Long live the old days, yay, so says the old guy.

here here!!
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Mon 10 Jun - 23:19

For me its down to one thing.

first team football.

how many of our national side command regular first team spots for theyre clubs.

its shocking, look at the top 5 clubs in the prem, how many englishmen start week in week out.

In france , holland, italy they still have foreign players in thetre top flights yet at the sametime theyre youth gets a chance to play and develope.

iv no idea if they have any sort of restrictions on number of foreigners but maybe its something we need. Nothing unreasonable - maybe u have to have 3 home nation players in the starting line up.

As a nation weve kinda made our bed of having the most entertaiing league in the world but the price of having some of the worlds most entertaining players is that it squeezes out the english youth that have to ply theyre trade at the lower end of the table or the championship which isnt going to win us a world cup sadly.
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Tue 11 Jun - 10:36

Its all well and good talking about home grown quota's but all it takes is one pissed off Belgian to go to the EU courts due to restrictment of trade and the jobs knackered. Mr Bosman anyone.
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Rob@Inter
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sat 29 Jun - 20:42

As England limp out of another youth tournament this summer at the hands of those global super powers .... Chile, Egypt and um .... Iraq. Totally inept. Poor quality players (Egypt currently making Ross Barkley look shit) and no real clue from a management perspective. Bright note - Eric Dier looks good but maybe that's because he's trained in Portugal?

Bosman is no real excuse as it impacts everyone.
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 30 Jun - 8:19

Riddle me this...

Why is it that so few of our youth players make it anywhere near our senior team ?
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 30 Jun - 8:33

poor showing from the under 20s again, still no sign of a decent goal scorer, quite a few of them didn't really look interested in the game against Egypt that they only had to draw ( or was that just me ), very disappointing really. But the team is very inexperienced, some only had a couple of caps at this level, it might help if they played friendlies each month ? ( although I expect their clubs would be up in arms over that suggestion ). 

Nothing really ever changes in this country does it, lots of people sprouting fine ideas, lots of money spent but never any improvement in results.

Where are the players that "bind" the team together like Alan Ball and Nobby Stiles, never the most gifted of players but essential to a winning side, they never seem to get selected at this level.
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Rob@Inter
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PostSubject: Re: England U21 ......   Sun 30 Jun - 8:52

Paul Hemmings wrote:
Where are the players that "bind" the team together like Alan Ball and Nobby Stiles, never the most gifted of players but essential to a winning side, they never seem to get selected at this level.

Agree with Paul. This is key. The more successful nations all build teams and not collections of players. 

Spain, France, Italy ..... all the age groups play the same way so there is a production line coming through. This way they find the best in each position so young players don't get lost or become jack of all trades. That way they actually make it to the full side and already know what they're supposed to do.

In terms of binding teams together, look at the Italian U-21 defence. None of the players is individually excellent but they were a good unit and held the more creative elements of the team together. And in other countries the workers in any team get the praise and focus they deserve - every team needs them. 

Finally the rest of the world seem to believe there is an importance in breeding a winning mentality instead of just hanging out at a tournament for a couple of weeks. Even Iraq are at the U-20 World Cup to win. Germany, Holland, Spain, France, even Italy now all produce competitive youth teams and it shows in how the main national teams perform too. In Spain or Germany's case it hasn't hampered the club sides too much either!!
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