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Tom@Charlton
World Star - 99/99
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 18:59

Congrats Andy, was always going to be a big ask. 

Another season goes by without troubling the trophy cabinet...
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 19:01

League games will kickoff at 1000 hours Wednesday morning...
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Tom@Charlton
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Tom@Charlton

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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 19:05

Maybe one day having the best centre backs in the league will help me keep a clean sheet, what’s the phrase, attacks win games, defenses win titles.

Interesting that you post that info Paul regarding formations, always thought FAS was fairly balanced but by the looks of it, it might be too attacking in its simplest form. Perhaps I need to look at a more defensive version to stop conceding so many goals? FAP or FAB might be worth a go, other managers have shown that can be successful. 

Would love your/or anyone’s thoughts on why I cannot keep a clean sheet for love nor money, despite having a decent back line and goalkeeper?

Good luck to everyone still in the competition, which does include Nantes and Fluminense so not all bad.
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Andy@Schalke
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Andy@Schalke

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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 19:52

Thanks Tom. I'd be interested to see how the game flowed, 'cos I was expecting it to be every bit as tough as the scoreline suggests.

I changed from FAS to FAP a couple of seasons ago, the idea being that gaining back possession when you're pressing, would mean starting your attacks higher up the pitch, leading to more goal chances.
I do seem to concede more goals though, probably depending on the formation I'm playing against and probably depending on whether I'm playing 3 CBs or not (amongst other things).

It's difficult to compare FAS with FAP really, because (and I'm not saying this is a bad thing) I suspect Paul is constantly trying to make sure each tactic is 'balanced'. So FAP might not be as effective now as it was 2 seasons ago...

I've been trying recently (unsuccessfully) to try and create a grid showing which tactics work well against which others...I think my conclusion (whether right or wrong) is that you can play most tactics with whatever formation you want, so long as the main positions are present - eg TM with FAS.

So that's what I tend to do - I play FAP with a TM, but I might play ANY combination of WBKs, AMs, DYs, CBs or STs, dependant upon the opposition players AND the tactic they use.

Andy.
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 20:41

Interesting, thanks mate. Always great to hear other managers thoughts.

It does surprise me, how flexible you treat the FAS formation. It obviously works for you. I was always under the impression that FAS works, certainly with the TM, but also relies on DYs and STs.
So to get the best out of it you have to have a combination of all those aspects.
Guess I’ve been wrong all this time? 

Can you advise Paul?
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 22:40

Given I played CAT and conceded 2 I’ve no idea tbh - defensively it’s challenging and that’s with 5 high quality defenders...

Paul would be great to shed more light on this
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 22:42

Plus I played Matic and Fernandinho at AM and DY, can’t get much more defensive than those 2...
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue 5 Mar - 22:48

I've definitely read somewhere that there are more flexible formations for each tactic.
I could be being 'too' flexible, although I make sure everything is balanced AND that I'm either matching opponents or exploiting their weaknesses. I'm not averse to a few cheeky Player Commands either...
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 7:23

Tom@Charlton wrote:
Interesting, thanks mate. Always great to hear other managers thoughts.

It does surprise me, how flexible you treat the FAS formation. It obviously works for you. I was always under the impression that FAS works, certainly with the TM, but also relies on DYs and STs.
So to get the best out of it you have to have a combination of all those aspects.
Guess I’ve been wrong all this time? 

Can you advise Paul?

I always play with a AM/BW combination. I tried to play TIC with the 3 DYS BUT conceded two goals however I was playing away. But I think Andy is right when saying about being flexible with formations. I used to play FAB, felt more secure. What I tended to find with FAS was the AM was more of a DLP, either passing to the TM/DYS. I tend to Find AM struggle to break up play when playing by themselves as they needed to be creative also. However a BW will tend to roam more to get possession and then feed the attacking players which helps recycle the ball better. But that's only my opinion.
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 8:13

My original design philosophy when I designed and built the match AI was based on the premise that I am an avid Manchester City fan and I enjoy watching games in which both teams try to outscore each other in order to win. This is the way City have always played ( except under a certain Italian ) and so the attacking players mostly get the benefit of any matchups that result in a skill equality, that means defenders have to be better than attackers in order to stop them ( not just as good as ). So when you get to the top end attackers with skill levels at 9 and top end defenders with skill levels at 9 the system will weight successes in favour of the attackers.

This does result in lots of goals and few clean sheets which is what I wanted.

But i'm happy to switch the system over so the defenders get the advantage but it means there will be a lot less goals scored. It does have to be one way or the other, attack or defence there is no inbetween, the system has to make a decision one way or the other.
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 9:16

That is a relief more than anything to be honest, thought I was still doing something wrong but when you play against top attackers week in week out it will be fairly impossible to get a clean sheet the way the game is set up.

As a Liverpool fan, who play in a similar way to City, I am all for the attackers getting the upper hand and more goals all around, makes for a much more entertaining game. God knows we don't all want to end up watching Mourinho's United week in week out.  I'm sure we are all much more of a Solksjaer than a Mourinho?

It probably doesn't help, in my case, with my other teams keeping clean sheets more regularly but then they don't have to face the relentless attacking prowess of the Premier League and Champions Cup.  So makes sense really.

I'll will stop my obsession with trying to keep a clean sheet and just accept that I'd be better focusing on making my attack more likely to score.

Thanks Paul, it wasn't meant as a criticism just couldn't understand it, thought big Virgil and LaPorte would be quite solid but prefer the way you've set it up and hope the others agree it should be left well alone.

Just a quick question, how flexible is FAS, do you take something away from it if you don't play 2 DYs and 2STs as well as a TM? Thanks
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Rob@Barcelona
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Rob@Barcelona

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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 9:18

I say this as someone who is playing with wingers home and away but who also just lost 3-2 in Europe away from home ......

I say keep things as they are with fun and excitement. Build our teams and tactics to take advantage. Should I have played SLO and been more conservative? Probably yes but I knew I was taking a gamble with 3 up top away from home to a good manager. I’d rather lose 3-2 away trying to win rather than 1-0
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 9:35

Paul Hemmings wrote:
My original design philosophy when I designed and built the match AI was based on the premise that I am an avid Manchester City fan and I enjoy watching games in which both teams try to outscore each other in order to win. This is the way City have always played ( except under a certain Italian ) and so the attacking players mostly get the benefit of any matchups that result in a skill equality, that means defenders have to be better than attackers in order to stop them ( not just as good as ). So when you get to the top end attackers with skill levels at 9 and top end defenders with skill levels at 9 the system will weight successes in favour of the attackers.

This does result in lots of goals and few clean sheets which is what I wanted.

But i'm happy to switch the system over so the defenders get the advantage but it means there will be a lot less goals scored. It does have to be one way or the other, attack or defence there is no inbetween, the system has to make a decision one way or the other.

I'm more than happy with more goals here for sure - definitely now understand how its more challenging to keep a clean sheet here.
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 9:56

The players are out and lined up, the crowds are ready and the ref checks his watches. Good luck to everybody this week...
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 10:00

and we're off...
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 10:01

Feyenoord 0 Rotterdam 1 Berghuis on 4 minutes as Feyenoord's wretched form continues.
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Paul Hemmings
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Barcelona 1 Santander 0 Morata on 5 minutes.
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Paul Hemmings
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Vitesse 0 Genk 1 Sturridge on 6 minutes.
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 10:02

Newcastle 1 Fulham 0 Ibrahimovic on 7 minutes.
Leicester 0 Leeds 1 Giovani.
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Paul Hemmings
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Paris 1 Toulouse 0 Gomis penalty on 9 minutes.
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 29 Week 14 processing...   Season 29 Week 14 processing... - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed 6 Mar - 10:04

Westham 1 Oldham 0 Jevtic on 10 minutes good start for fast improving Hammers.
Monaco 1 Marseille 0 Sinkala.
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Paul Hemmings
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Gladbach 1 Hamburg 0 Kroos freekick on 11 minutes.
PSV 0 Anderlecht 1 Cavenaghi penalty, early setback for the leaders.
Inverness 1 Hibs 0 Fountas.
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Paul Hemmings
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Leicester 1 Leeds 1 Siem De Jong on 12 minutes.
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Paul Hemmings
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West Brom 1 Chelsea 0 Cleverley on 13 minutes. Vital game for both sides.
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Paul Hemmings
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Newcastle 2 Fulham 0 Juan Cuadrado on 14 minutes, Geordies off to a flying start.
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Paul Hemmings
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Man City 1 Birmingham 0 Dzeko on 15 minutes.
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