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PostSubject: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 8:59

Hi Paul,

One thing is bugging me like no tomorrow, and I'd like the official word on it if you dont mind.

Obviously you'd like everyone that plays the game to enter into European Competition.

Quite rightly, you're also looking at some sort of squad limit etc.

At Leicester, currently I have a senior squad of 26. Which I think is reasonable, and certainly would not struggle to trim to 25 senior Pros (which I think is a brilliant idea by the way).

However, currently it appears that several members of my squad are totally incapable of playing two games a week. Stamina goes from High to blank, in a heartbeat...thus meaning that a rest is in order.

However, my issue is that the 'rest' is two full turns before they return to high. This is daft in my opinion. I like the notion, but the parameters are set too high...or their tolerance for workload is set too low.

I have 5 strikers at the club, 3 of which are on blank stamina this turn, because they're tired. 1 of them has played 3 senior games this entire season....how the hell is he tired!?.

I write this, as I seriously cannot envisage why on earth I would want to enter Europe next season when it does this to my squad. Getting to the Premier League is my goal in this game.

Only the man with the 3rd lung...Ji-Sung Park, seems to be able to play 2 games a week.

I'd really appreciate your thoughts, and anyone elses.


Kind Regards


Rich
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Rob@Barcelona
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 9:34

I have found that stamina is a real issue and the only way around it is to use youths and reserves in the cup games. Last turn I only started 3 regular first teamers in the cup match as I wanted them all for the League games. I'm in a similar position where I have 26 in my first team squad but 6 of those are under 21 players with 2 of them moving to the academy this turn.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 10:50

I only ever worry about stamina if a player has 'low', i could be wrong but i've always thought that if it is blank it doesn't necessarily mean that their stamina is low.

My players only get a family holiday if their stamina is low or if on the match report it says that the player 'is looking tired'.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 11:10

To clarify - I'm like Matt in that it's only an issue on low or unable to walk.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 11:16

I play my players in every comp. League, cup, Europe. And I don't rotate and all my players are on High, and as far as I'm aware they havnt dropped to blank or low. I do have the REST command in my training schedule 2/3 times a week. And no Sunday training
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 12:10

The resting might be what's working so well for you. Do you drop skills at all?
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 12:53

i have exactly the same problem with mine.

i have 3 defenders that have only managed to play 1 competitive league game each this season

they played that game and have been blank ever since.

The rest of the time iv have had to leave them out of everything to allow them to recover and get their stamina up.

thing is, it never comes back, they just stay on blank. so i got fed up with it and gave them all the rest command - ironically they then all moaned and lost form and morale cos apparently they werent tired!!!!!

last turn i played all three in just the cup as despite having crap form, morale and had lost some stats they finally had high stamina.

they then all come back after just 90 mins of football with good stamina again.

i dont have sunday training (never had) and i give them two afternoons off a week.

dont get it???



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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 13:03

I only seem to have satamina issues with two players, Vermaelen and Nasri.

I've been subbing Vermaelen at half time recently but that hasn't helped at all and he's still shagged out. I'm resting him this week so we'll see what happens!

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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 16:45

like rob i too play my reserve team in europe and the cup. its worked quite well as i've not performed too badly, though to be honest i'd like to have played more first team players. i havn't done so for the exact reasons Rich has mentioned and the last time i was in europe (which was about the same time that Leeds United were a top four club in england) all my players were knackered out from playing so much football. i certainly think perhaps that player's tire a bit too quick, after all they manage two games a week in real life alright. i think i sent paul a message a while back asking if he could give players proper match conditions as a percentage because i just dont think stamina is as clear as it could be. blank doesnt really mean anything, i only assume it means match fit? i play players on blank cos i assume its ok to do so, and it doesnt say on the match report they are looking tired, if i had them on low i would leave them out. most of us have fitness trainers and well balanced training schedules....though there could be something we are all missing so be good to get the official word from paul as Rich says.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 17:32

I, too, have been playing a second string in Europe and the cup this season as stamina is an issue. Also I have been dropping players out the first team as soon as there stamina hits good, to maintain a high level throughout each game.

I have been working with this in mind :

http://www.championship-football.net/t13-resting-players

Has anyone noticed players tiring after a certain time when on good or blank stamina? Or is it just as well to play them for the full 90 minutes?

Also, has anyone else noticed that it seems to be the same players that lose stamina. Certain players are more likely to get stamina problems than others?
I noticed Mark has mentioned he has problems with Nasri and Vermaelen, I only have an issue with three certain players nd I know that Will has the same problem with two players in particular.

Do we think it is just something in a certain players make-up? Some players are affected, and others aren't.

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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 19:18

what i have noticed with my 3 lazy laytabouts is that they are all on RELAXED on their training ground report.

now this could literally mean that cos they havent been playing they have taken a chill pill and arent doing enough in training.

would love to know Phil how ur players are doing stamina wise, cos theres maybe something in just playing them and keeping them match fit.

if its just simply individual players having something in their make up which makes certain ones tire more than others then fair enough.

but id like to know if possible
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 19:24

if i play a player on good stamina i know that he'll quite often be blank the next turn if i play him two games in a row. i only play a player in both a cup game and league game if he's on high stamina and i'm desperate for him to play.

im not sure those times are accurate for players tiring tom. thinking about it, every player has a different level of natural fitness, plus it depends what position a player plays in the team. i think you can play a player for as much as 90 even on 'blank' depending on where he plays and your tactics. i'll be quite intrigued to hear from the horses mouth though about player conditions and how long a player is likely to last, but i imagine no two players are the same. even if you have two players in your squad with both on 'good' stamina there's probably a good chance that one will play the 90 minutes without a problem and the other you might notice tire during the game. i guess this is because a DY or LB, RB will generally run further in a match than a CB or ST, CF and therefor tire quicker. be good to hear from paul about it and what positions or tactics have higher threats of stamina. I would imagine playing FAS will burn your players out quicker than SLO.

Will@Fulham wrote:
what i have noticed with my 3 lazy laytabouts is that they are all on RELAXED on their training ground report.
this only happens when you don't play a player in the team.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 21:14

2 of the 3 that tire for me are CB's.

it just feels that im dammed if i do and dammed if i dont play them that is.

if i do they literally die the following week and are 'tired' for about 2 to 3 weeks and if i dont play them they put theyre tools down and relax in training and so dont regain stamina.

this isnt a moan, far from it, i appreciate its a balancing act, and one that i relish and enjoy , i would just love some more info into the mechanics of it.

to be fair paul has given me ideas b4 on this so maybe its me just being a bit special.lol!!
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 21:50

i think you should be playing players in the reserves if they arn't in the first team though will? they still recover their fitness from not playing in the first team, but by not playing a player at all like you have been doing, surely this means he loses more match sharpness? hence the 'relaxed' in training? if i dont play a player in the first team i'll play them in the reserves, no matter what condition they have, and i've always believed that's the correct thing to do. i only have one player that is on blank stamina and another 3 on good, everbody else is on high stamina. either i'm doing something right or i'm just lucky.

I am just drawing from my own experience here though, how quickly a player tires for each level of stamina is speculative so it's best that paul explains that. I can't quite figure why your CB's are losing stamina so quickly though, its quite bewildering. could just be because they havn't played enough football, even if its just reserve games.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 21:59

what u say makes perfect sense stu, its something iv thought about doing certainly
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 3 Mar - 22:31

play them in the reserves bud, its a mistake to leave them out completely, relaxed attitude in training is not helping them regain match fitness. if you stick them in the reserves then they shouldn't come up as relaxed.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeWed 16 Mar - 14:58

I've been keeping an eye on it since Will mentioned it a few weeks back,

fyi stamina goes

high 90-99
good 70-89
blank 40-69 ( originally normal which sort of implied 90mins but was not )
low 10-39
awful 0-9

at the start of each game the players stamina is stam+30 minutes giving a range of 30-129 minutes of 100% effort, each minute of the game 1 is subtracted from a players stamina and when it reaches 0 ( and not before its not a gradual thing ) he gets tired and will no longer make forward or backward runs. he will just hold his position in the team. at this point you get a warning in the match report. at this point your CB wont just sit down and pretend to be John Terry he will still defend but he wont go forward anymore if he ever did in the first place. it dont effect GKs at all ( and ive now removed stamina from the GKs ) but it will effect DYs alot as they will become BWs basically and not attack or defend they just stay in midifield really. obviously effects LHRHs as well cos they do both attacking and defending, dont affect LWRWs much either. affects LKRKs im sure you get the picture.

at the end of each game the stamina they STARTED the game with is reduced by 10 points for league/cup/euro games ( so somebody starting on 79 would go down to 69 ) if a player has the STAMINA attribute the reduction is reduced to just -2.

if he starts on 99 then plays twice in a week he should end up on 79 at the end of the week.

Regaining Stamina is a bit trickier to predict because you basically have a 15% chance of getting a +50 increment everytime RE appears in your training routine.

This I guess is the reason that stamina returns for some players and not others, maybe we could work this a bit better to give a smaller guaranteed increment for each time RE appears in your training routine.

i think that is all written out correctly !!! tongue





Last edited by Paul Hemmings on Wed 16 Mar - 15:43; edited 11 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeWed 16 Mar - 15:01

excellent!, thank god for that.

Cheers Paul
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeWed 16 Mar - 19:43

this is really helpful paul, thanks. by my understanding then, a player on good stamina should be fine to last a whole match, and 3/4's of a match on blank. i guess then it just depends how many RE's are on our training sechedules to enable them to recover. i think i have three, both sunday slots and saturday pm. thanks to rich for bringing it to pau's attention
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeWed 16 Mar - 22:44

Interesting. As always, the feedback is much appreciated Paul, thanks.

Can I just ask, I understand that a player's stamina rating goes down by -10 for one game, and another -10 if there is a European or cup game as well, and the player plays in both.

However, can you tell me, how much a score decreases if a player plays only part of a game as a substitute? If he only plays a half, does he go down by -5, or still by -10?

Also, if a player is left out completely of any games in a week, does his score go up by an amount, or does it just remain the same and is reliant upon the 15% chance?

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeWed 16 Mar - 23:30

Tom@Charlton wrote:
Interesting. As always, the feedback is much appreciated Paul, thanks.

Can I just ask, I understand that a player's stamina rating goes down by -10 for one game, and another -10 if there is a European or cup game as well, and the player plays in both.

However, can you tell me, how much a score decreases if a player plays only part of a game as a substitute? If he only plays a half, does he go down by -5, or still by -10?

Also, if a player is left out completely of any games in a week, does his score go up by an amount, or does it just remain the same and is reliant upon the 15% chance?

Thanks.

good shout tom....in my opinion a player should get a boost of sorts if he's left out completely for just one week and return him to full fitness, but leaving him out for consecutive weeks should then have a negative effect as he would then lack match practise/sharpness. if the current set-up is just reliant on the 15% chance for players left out then there's little point actually leaving them out if that is the case, as everything comes down to chance and the quality of your staff in giving them a small boost.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeThu 17 Mar - 8:43

I left Vermaelen out of both my games this turn and it seems to have worked.... he's back up to "high" stamina.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeSat 19 Mar - 9:04

Tom@Charlton wrote:
Interesting. As always, the feedback is much appreciated Paul, thanks.

Can I just ask, I understand that a player's stamina rating goes down by -10 for one game, and another -10 if there is a European or cup game as well, and the player plays in both.

However, can you tell me, how much a score decreases if a player plays only part of a game as a substitute? If he only plays a half, does he go down by -5, or still by -10?

Also, if a player is left out completely of any games in a week, does his score go up by an amount, or does it just remain the same and is reliant upon the 15% chance?

Thanks.

if a player is totally left out of all games then he should return to 99.
if he gets on the pitch then he goes down by 10, its the stress of crossing the line I expect Smile
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeSat 19 Mar - 22:37

Paul Hemmings wrote:
if a player is totally left out of all games then he should return to 99.
if he gets on the pitch then he goes down by 10, its the stress of crossing the line I expect Smile

Again, really appreciate the comments. Thanks.

Also, like to say it is great to see Paul coming back onto the forums more and more often. It really helps to clear a lot of things up, that we would just normally end up arguing and debating about without finding out the actual answer!

Simple things like the above post are so helpful and much appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: FAO Paul - Stamina   FAO Paul - Stamina Icon_minitimeSun 20 Mar - 10:49

Tom@Charlton wrote:
Paul Hemmings wrote:
if a player is totally left out of all games then he should return to 99.
if he gets on the pitch then he goes down by 10, its the stress of crossing the line I expect Smile

Again, really appreciate the comments. Thanks.

Also, like to say it is great to see Paul coming back onto the forums more and more often. It really helps to clear a lot of things up, that we would just normally end up arguing and debating about without finding out the actual answer!

Simple things like the above post are so helpful and much appreciated.

totally agree, long may it continue Very Happy
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