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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 10:31 am

Just a quick heads up before week 9 starts...

After discussions with a few players I made a slight change to the way dis works...

PLAYER DISILLUSIONMENT
How it works is like this, each time you drop a player he gets +1% disillusionment handicap, each time he plays a first11 game the system uses that percentage chance to determine if a small handicap is applied to his concentration level, the conlevel is then checked during the game and any negative effects are seen as disruption because of the concern you've created over a long period he'll be dropped again. A side effect of one players conlevel can have a knock on effect to other players as well and if it gets bad can spread to the whole first11. The rate of spread is at 50% of the original conlevel, so a player with conlevel of 10% has a small chance ( 15% ) of causing a conlevel of 5% in other players.  

At the end of a week in which a player is still dropped he gains another 1% but any week he plays for the first11 he losses 1% disillusionment until he's back to zero%. 

( when I checked the code this is how it worked, slightly differently than I remembered )

Disillusionment handicaps are set to zero first week of the season and any time a player is transferred or loaned out and any time a player's current club reach a domestic cup final or european cup quarter-final. 

Disillusionment only applies to players aged 24,25,26,27,28 or 29.

( added this section )

I will find space on one of the reports to put the dis level when  I get time.
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 10:58 am

Just curious on this, 

Is it just first 11 players ? Or are all player between 23-29 included ? 
Is it reset if a player is Injured/Suspended ?
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 11:07 am

Phil@Watford wrote:
Just curious on this, 

Is it just first 11 players ? Or are all player between 23-29 included ? 
Is it reset if a player is Injured/Suspended ?

applies to any player who has been dropped from the first11, dropping a player is defined as playing first11 currentweek-1 not playing first11 currentweek. if that condition applies and his age is 24-29 at the end of the week then he gets +1% dis, if not he plays first11 and gets -1% dis. If he has any dis% at the end of week and hasny played first11 that week he gets another +1%.

players who are inj/sus are a bit more complex, if the inj/sus lasts one week they wont be affected if it rolls over to two or more weeks they will lose -1% dis each week. But to compensate being inj/sus no longer affects a players morale.

inj/sus players dont accrue dis.
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 12:17 pm

Paul Hemmings wrote:
Phil@Watford wrote:
Just curious on this, 

Is it just first 11 players ? Or are all player between 23-29 included ? 
Is it reset if a player is Injured/Suspended ?

applies to any player who has been dropped from the first11, dropping a player is defined as playing first11 currentweek-1 not playing first11 currentweek. if that condition applies and his age is 24-29 at the end of the week then he gets +1% dis, if not he plays first11 and gets -1% dis. If he has any dis% at the end of week and hasny played first11 that week he gets another +1%.

players who are inj/sus are a bit more complex, if the inj/sus lasts one week they wont be affected if it rolls over to two or more weeks they will lose -1% dis each week. But to compensate being inj/sus no longer affects a players morale.

inj/sus players dont accrue dis.
Thanks for that  Smile

Another question, is this just League ? As myself like most others will probably do lots of rotations in the CUP? 

Phil
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 3:00 pm

Well, some questions and comments. I've been thinking about this alot lately:

1 - Can players of all ages in the F11 be affected by a disillusioned player?
 
2 - So, if you’ve played a player in the F11 (say just once, to cover for injury), when they are dropped (say, the injured player returns), the player will continue to now accrue disillusionment until they play in the F11 again? With no hope of reducing dis over time?
 
3 - And when they do next play F11, their level of dis could be so bad that there’s quite a big chance that the F11 will be crippled. So who, in their right minds, would ever play a player that will do that? I’d rather play a schoolboy.
 
4 - Is there a maximum %age of disillusionment at all?
 
5 - Does disilliusionment affect a players’ morale? Or even the other way around?
 
6 - Shouldn’t a players’ attitude have some bearing on their level of dis? Att1 players would be more likely to get pissed-off...
 
7 - Inj/sus players don’t accrue dis, but I’m guessing their dis isn’t reduced either?
 
8 - Can’t wait to see the dis level of players - the sooner the better really.


 
I do have problems with this. I’ve been wrestling with it since I found out really. 
I’m not convinced this is overly relevant in todays game of large squads and plenty of games. 


I always like to switch the team up a bit, sometimes to give players a rest, sometimes to play certain players in certain positions. If that doesn’t become an option, then it’s going to be a bit boring to have to play the same team over and over again to alleviate the disillusionment factor.


Hopefully, I’m over-estimating the effects of disillusionment, but considering I’ve just lost a league game that I should have won because of it - it IS a big factor.


I like to think that the players that I pick, are the ones that will do the best against the players that they will be playing against. It gives me a feeling that I’m the one that has orchestrated the victory.


Then, when disillusionment has decimated half of my first team, it just feels...random. I am already taking into consideration, when picking a team, the effects of disruption. I like to think I’m playing poker, but this week felt like I was playing the slots - might as well flip a coin?

I really hope I’ve completely got the wrong end of the stick here and, to be honest, I'm quite prepared to be proven wrong - as Paul is invariably spot on with his systems!
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 4:13 pm

I'd imagine this is just relevant to attitude 1 players?  I'd be very surprised if it was anything else?
Can't be all players surely? The amount of injurioes I'm getting at the minute with Charlton means I'm putting players in and out all the time.

Also, I always have an issue when an injured player is fit again but nowhere near skilled up enough to get in the team.  Can you indiviually train the same week you send them to a specialist?
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 4:25 pm

Andy@Schalke wrote:
2 - So, if you’ve played a player in the F11 (say just once, to cover for injury), when they are dropped (say, the injured player returns), the player will continue to now accrue disillusionment until they play in the F11 again? With no hope of reducing dis over time?
 
3 - And when they do next play F11, their level of dis could be so bad that there’s quite a big chance that the F11 will be crippled. So who, in their right minds, would ever play a player that will do that? I’d rather play a schoolboy.


Agree with this, surely would just mean that for example, if Andy Robertson got injured in week 8, then I can use Saka to cover for him in weeks 9 and 10, but the when Robbo is back I'm dropping Saka.  So if Robertson gets injured again in week 14, I'd be stupid to put in Saka as his dis would've built up quite a bit?  I'd be better off playing Ryan Sessegnon?

So, basically you can only use a backup player once thorughout the season?

Maybe PERK could cure disillusionment? Or does it already?
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 4:27 pm

Tom@Charlton wrote:
Andy@Schalke wrote:
2 - So, if you’ve played a player in the F11 (say just once, to cover for injury), when they are dropped (say, the injured player returns), the player will continue to now accrue disillusionment until they play in the F11 again? With no hope of reducing dis over time?
 
3 - And when they do next play F11, their level of dis could be so bad that there’s quite a big chance that the F11 will be crippled. So who, in their right minds, would ever play a player that will do that? I’d rather play a schoolboy.


Agree with this, surely would just mean that for example, if Andy Robertson got injured in week 8, then I can use Saka to cover for him in weeks 9 and 10, but the when Robbo is back I'm dropping Saka.  So if Robertson gets injured again in week 14, I'd be stupid to put in Saka as his dis would've built up quite a bit?  I'd be better off playing Ryan Sessegnon?

So, basically you can only use a backup player once thorughout the season?

Maybe PERK could cure disillusionment? Or does it already?
My understanding is that its only 24-29year old players. So Saka wouldn't have a issue being replaced in this instance... 

However, I have a similar is in that Jonny Otto is 26 and would be disillusioned should he get into the team then dropped. 

So either need a younger replacement or a older one ha


Last edited by Phil@Watford on Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 4:29 pm

Tom@Charlton wrote:
I'd imagine this is just relevant to attitude 1 players?  I'd be very surprised if it was anything else?
Can't be all players surely? The amount of injurioes I'm getting at the minute with Charlton means I'm putting players in and out all the time.

Also, I always have an issue when an injured player is fit again but nowhere near skilled up enough to get in the team.  Can you indiviually train the same week you send them to a specialist?
No this would affect All players between 24-29 if they keep getting picked and dropped. 

Are players protected if in Youth Academy/Schoolboy academy?

Also, does a player who is "rubbing" off on another with poor disillusionment only affect 24-29 year old or does it affect any player in the squad?
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 4:48 pm

Also, re cup matches, my understanding is that players do NOT accrue dis in a cup match, but a dis check IS made during cup matches, so it can affect your cup F11 during the match.
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 5:09 pm

So basically you will be in trouble if you have any reserve players between 24-29 and they ever have to play?

Seems a bit harsh?

So having a perfect storm of 11 first 11 players and 6 first 18 players is now hindered by age as well?
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 6:59 pm

From what I understand, Schalke must have several players that have a disillusionment %age (conlevel), and I'll bet most other teams do to...

If they don’t play, their conlevel will go up. If they play, their conlevel will go down, but there will be an in-game check to see if their play is affected (whatever that is, 5% 10% whatever the conlevel is). In addition, there’s a 15% chance that their dis will spread to other players (at half the rate). If so, those players are checked in-game. And these checks are made for EACH player with a conlevel.
 
I don’t know whether a conlevel that ‘spreads’ just adds to the conlevel already present of the players that it spreads to?
Also, don’t know whether the 15% chance of spreading is checked against each F11 player seperately or whether the failure of one 15% check means that the rest of the team are additionally infected automatically?
 
Either way, it can be harsh. Normally, by this time, I’ve picked my team and written my turnsheet, but I honestly don’t know what to do or how to alleviate it successfully. Wait until I get to the cup qtr final I suppose, but I could have a very bad game in the last 16 - and not have a clue until it happens...

I think what I'm after is to know the extent of the problem in my squad, and how best to sort it out...
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:03 pm

I get more confused every time I re read this. 

Con level is something calculated  in game, whereas disillusionment handicap is calculated pre and post match? 

Is that right? 

If a player has a disillusion handicap of 2%, dropped and then left out for another week, does he then lose 2% con level or is there a 2% chance he will suffer a small handicap if called upon that week? 

So the rest of the first team, will drop 1% con level or have a 1% chance of a small handicap to their con level?
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:14 pm

Disillusionment (the system name) and conlevel (the in-game attribute) are the same thing I think.

A conlevel of 2%, dropped and then left out, would give conlevel of 4%.

If that player then played, there'd be a 4% chance of suffering dis. And a 15% chance of spreading 2% to F11. That players dis would then drop to 3% as he's just played in F11.

I think that's right. 

These are small numbers, but if you're 'unlucky'...........
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:20 pm

Quite, if it wasn’t for bad luck, Charlton wouldn’t have any at all! 

So if you were unlucky and suffered dis, then what is the small handicap? 

I appreciate it’s all small margins at the top level. 

Still don’t understand why it seems we are being penalised for having reserves between the ages of 24-29?
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:30 pm

The handicap is that all players that fail the check, suffer disillusionment, which manifests in the game as disruption...so you lose possession, or have skill drops...disruption stuff...

At least 4 of my F11 suffered this in the recent lge match
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:35 pm

I must just say, that I think it's pretty damn rare in game.

Trying to think of a RL instance.....maybe Deli Alli? He's been dropped for a while, and when he came back he wasn't very good, whether that was 'form' or 'disillusionment' though.....?
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:41 pm

All confusing and far to deep thinking for me lol , surely if the players are in a first eleven relevant to their attitude  , reserves ,youth team they shouldn't suffer from it
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:50 pm

I am assuming, however I’ve just realised, that this is all new to the game.  Whereas Paul does actually say he has made a ‘slight’ change to the way it works which does suggest the main aspects of this system were already in place anc have been for a long time?
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 7:54 pm

Yes, I think it's been in for years - suggesting that it's been working satisfactorily all that time!

I'd just like a dis report in-game and a few ways for us to have a positive influence on it...
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 8:52 pm

Andy@Schalke wrote:
Yes, I think it's been in for years - suggesting that it's been working satisfactorily all that time!

I'd just like a dis report in-game and a few ways for us to have a positive influence on it...
Agreed
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 9:06 pm

Quick question for Paul,  

I think being dropped from a cup game doesn't increase dis, but does playing in a cup game reduce dis?

Perhaps that could be one way of placating players?

Maybe perk could be another way?

And perhaps dis is only increased for players at Att1, so you could control things using wages?
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeWed Nov 04, 2020 9:52 am

Don't worry bout this too much cos it's been apart of the game for about FIFTEEN years so far and I'm only explaining it now because Andy@Schalke asked me about it, and he is only the second person in 15 seasons to notice it affecting his result. 

Dis is only one of the elements that can affect a player's skill levels used for a game and can easily be countered naturally by players on superb form or superb morale or whose bonuses are all at the correct level ( Schalke's bonuses arent all high enoough which is the reason why his players were affected last week ). 

The easiest way to counteract dis is to make sure morale is superb and bonuses are at the expected levels.
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Andy@Schalke
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeWed Nov 04, 2020 1:18 pm

Jesus! I've been tearing my hair (singular) out over this, turns out it's my own stupid fault.

Although morale is skyhi and wbeff superb down the line....all other winbonuses are same as last season as I'd won diddly-squat...


...ooo,maybe they're not. I probably reduced them for this season because I'd won nothing - although I think I actually won the cup last season. I obviously need to check........
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing...   Season 31 Week 9 pre-processing... Icon_minitimeWed Nov 04, 2020 2:46 pm

lol! Thanks Paul

Panic over.....
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