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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 13 Mar - 21:36

Just thought I'd put the question out there, as I have just been looking at the European tables and they do suggest that our teams are really struggling in the competition.

Not sure if it just reality managers that are too tough as unmanaged teams seem to be much more competitive now too?

I personally don't mind it, as I don't want the game to be too easy. However, I'm not sure I'd feel the same if I had a squad like Iains or Jamies, and continued to overcome aveage sides.

Out of the 8 European cup groups, the top teams with one game to go breakdown as : 4 Reality managed clubs, 3 Unmanaged clubs and Barca, who are only top by virtue of goals scored, equal on points with the mighty Dragavol.

Real and Plymouth are already out the competiton, and others like Inter, Newcastle and Schalke are on the brink with one game to go.

Like I say, I am more than happy with the changes as it has become much more of a challenge.


In summary, has the game become so difficult that it is becoming unrealistic?

Thoughts?
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 13 Mar - 21:43

tom....we must have been thinking a similar thing at the same time....see my post mate about goalkeepers. that information came from the horses mouth from someone else who rang and spoke to paul.

but yes, i agree that the level of opponent is too strong. it would be better really that paul lowered things back to how they were or atleast a more realistic level. i'd much rather he concentrated on the already good progress made of making the unmanaged/reality sides stronger with better players rather than giving them more handicaps such as their goalkeepers being amazing even if they have a low rating.
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 13 Mar - 21:53

i think the league tables give the fairest indication.

Were at roughly the half way mark of the season and a quick look at england shows a relatively even spread in terms of league positions of the reality teams.

Europe has certainly thrown up some strange results and the big hammerings the two Jaimies have taken are certainly something to look at.

for me iv no objection to loosing, dropping points or getting a beating off a reality managed club, but what does choke u is when u look at their side and Eddie Johnson is their best and most recognisable player.

for me paul needs to start freshening up england with players who are current and not let them just slip off to Jablonec and the like.

If i get beat by a side of players iv heard of and respect then thats fine and ill have to double my efforts but getting tonked by claude davis,Rica prade and co would leave a bitter taste in anyones mouth.

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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 14 Mar - 0:09

Paul has tweaked it way too much. Enough said from me.

Thanks all and goodbye, there are some good players at Bohemians and Marseille to be raped.
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 14 Mar - 11:55

I think from my point of view the game needs to be realistic. Yes some weird results do happen but on average the team with the better players should win.

A team like Iain's Real Madrid should, against most opposition, win- Barca in real life is an obvious example but to go out of the CL in the group stages is tbh a bit unrealistic. Same goes for other teams with excellent players etc.

Yes there needs to be some sort of algorithm which evens it up, to avoid making it too easy, but I think for all intense and purposes it should attempt to be as realistic as possible.

How you do that though is anyones guess!
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Rob@Barcelona
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 14 Mar - 12:06

See my post on the goalkeepers thread. Paul has said he tweaked it and thinks it was too much. However we need to call him individually to make the point. I did on Friday.
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Mark@Newcastle
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 14 Mar - 16:54

Martin@Bohemians wrote:
Paul has tweaked it way too much. Enough said from me.

Thanks all and goodbye, there are some good players at Bohemians and Marseille to be raped.

Sorry to see you go Martin.

All the best fella.
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeFri 8 Apr - 23:05

Just like to raise this again, as this week has enforced this issue even more.

Not so much the game getting harder, but also the restrictions on player movement.

Think this is a factor of less money being available in the game, players losing monetary value, and swapbids being much harder to do.

Looking at the players transferred report this week, there is a massive shortage of players going anywhere. Think there are about three private deals and the rest are 'news'.

It is the quietest report I have seen since joining the game.

I know we were all moaning about tighter restrictions should be introduced, but have they gone too far, and are they stifling the ability to buy and sell players?

Finding the game much more difficult now, but in a good way, however I do miss the ability to buy and sell players as much as I could before.

Thats just my personal opinion, wonder if anyone has any thoughts?
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeFri 8 Apr - 23:47

I think you have a very valid point Tom and from my limited time playing the game again I think it boils down to the limited amount of quality players available for English managers. There are prob 8 quality players who play in England who are at teams abroad and the rest are filtered across the league. Nobody wants to really sell their quality players and if they do it essentially is going to cost managers another quality player in return so we are essentially at a standstill regarding what managers can do with their teams.

With money not being seen as a major factor I think it is really tough to get any traction in the transfer market.

I don't quite know how this can be solved although I do have 3 ideas:

1: Increase the impact of money- instead of needing to swapbid players essentially you can but them easier off reality and unmanaged clubs- this may happen already but I just don't know how to do it.

2: Build into the game transfer requests etc either with players wanting a new challenge or feel they are not at a bigger enough club. If someone is not playing first team football then as apposed to them being unhappy they should demand a move and not want to play at the club anymore. This would certainly stop teams hoarding players. This should also happen for youngsters who are at clubs and not playing. Again this may happen already?

3: Start a process to allow teams from inside England to bring in players that don't currently play in England. This is a radical solution but it would certainly make sure the transfer market is constantly moving.

Either way I can possibly see that each season at least until the transfer window things being quite unexciting in the tmarket.
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSat 9 Apr - 14:08

Agree with much of what has been said here. I think the possible introduction of 25 man squads (in whatever form it may take) may slow the transfer market down further too.
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSat 9 Apr - 14:40

possibly. the over 29 syndrome has already rendered over 29s worthless. ok, maybe not worthless but its devauled them atleast and made an over 29 worth more to a selling club than a buying one which has stagnated things. the changes i think are good for the game because the value of cash has gone up as managers realise there are players to be bought for cash, especially those in the 28+ bracket (in europe atleast).

what needs to happen next is that these reality clubs start making proper offers for players (player plus cash type deals) and that offers can be made to them aswell of player + cash. there aren't enough managers in the game to deal with if you have a player that isn't attractive to a human club, but possibly attractive to a non-human one. if paul could look into improving this aspect then i actually think the transfer market will remain vibrant enough when it needs to be. we've already seen non-human clubs making cash bids for their real life players which is definitely a step in the right direction. i'm atleast 75% happy with how things are.
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSat 9 Apr - 19:31

Guys,

Some great points raised. I for one returning to the game have found it hard for anyone to sell players.
The one tihng i find hard is that some people have said certain players are available and then when i have asked what they want it becomes something impossible, either way too much money or one of my star players in return.

Not sure what the answer is, this was a problem when i left over a year ago and is still a problem now.
I agree with ben in terms of players just sitting around at clubs and have been for several seasons, they should be unhappy and wanting to leave.

Maybe Paul should read this and see if he can add anything in that he is thinking of introducing?
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 10 Apr - 0:49

Stuart@Roma wrote:


players should maybe expect to play a percentage of your competitive games over a season depending on their CR (including european and domestic cup matches). something like....60% of games for a 99cr, 50% for a 97cr, 40% for a 95cr, 30% for a 94cr, 20% for a 92cr, 10% for a 90cr. the percentage calculated from games available to play in so excludes games where he is injured or suspended.


if we did this ^^ then an example here:

a team plays 30 matches in a season (22 league, 6 european, 2 domestic cup).

99cr played 18 games (available for 25) = 72% of matches played
97cr played 15 games (available for 28) = 54% of matches played
95cr played 11 games (available for 28) = 39% of matches played
94cr played 9 games (available for 29) = 32% of matches played
92cr played 5 games (available for 30) = 17% of matches played
90cr played 3 games (available for 30) = 10% of matches played

by the % method in my quoted text the 95cr and the 92cr players would be unhappy with this amount of football and request a transfer. the request transfer perhaps happening at the week 23 stage of each season as the system could possibly then calculate the % each player has played, though it means it needs to also track the games a player was available for throughout the season, which could be hard i don't know. But that's the only way to do it because you can't just say a player should expect to play "XXX games" as its unfair on those that were injured for 6 weeks or suspended.

the % margins are important because in real life i think a typical 95cr of the top nations would expect to play atleast a third of a club's games. since a 95cr ability is varied - in terms of the nationality of a player - i think 40% isn't too high an amount. it needs to be atleast 35% though as some 95cr's are actually better players ~in real terms~ than you think, its only cos some might play for serbia or croatia that makes them a lower rating, but they should still expect to play a decent amount of games ~imo.
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 10 Apr - 3:04

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh people demand what they demand,

SIMPLE
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 10 Apr - 7:30

I think the opposite Dan

You wait until Rich (Brum) and Mark have to have A 25 man squad

Wait until Bale, Rodwell, Carroll and the like are all jumping on him for first 11 footy if they're not already..
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeSun 10 Apr - 15:38

Actually Dorrans is a git for that so I dropped him from the reserves Twisted Evil

Bale's actually 1st choice now as well, as is Evans.

Would help if you didn't get shafted for changing ya team round.
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 11 Apr - 10:47

Stu I think that it is a defo great suggestion although I think the % should be higher for those at the top end.

A few q's:

To back this up though does there needs to be quite stringent penalties for refusing requests?

For instance if your performance levels drop by 2% but you have 20 quality players in your squad then this will offset the difference and you won't be bothered to sell. If however, your performance levels drop by 10/15% then you are forced to.

Secondly, could the player requesting a transfer actually refuse to play for his club again helping the process along?

Thirdly could this stimulate the loan market with teams needing to loan out players to avoid them becoming unhappy?

Just some more thoughts...
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 11 Apr - 10:53

ben, you've touched on an a very good point.

Currently the loan Market is non-existent, because the played Loaned in doesnt gain TU for the loaning club.

If Paul found a way round this...perhaps fixing the TU at 'good' for the duration of the loan..it might get that Market going again

Thoughts on a postcard
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Ben@Plymouth
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 11 Apr - 10:59

I agree with this although loans should also be longer loans - say half season and full season loans - isn't the max 8 weeks atm then it needs extending?

What did you think about penalties for non compliance of transfer requests?
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 11 Apr - 11:45

Ben....i think the %'s are pretty fair at those levels - it is a squad game these days and i think most star players would accept playing in just over half their clubs games - many of them miss games such as fa cup, league cup and weaker PL teams (wigan,wolves etc) if they were playing a midweek CL game. so....for me 60% for a 99 and 50% for a 97 is fair...possibly this could be pushed to 75% and 60% but certainly no more than that.

so either:

CR / % of games expected

99 = 60%
97 = 50%
95 = 40%
94 = 30%
92 = 20%
90 = 10%
88 = 5%

or

CR / % of games expected

99 = 75%
97 = 60%
95 = 45%
94 = 35%
92 = 25%
90 = 15%
88 = 5%

it would be great if loaned players held some kind of TU. I currently have a player in on loan (huntelaar) whose actually managed to do ok so far. they should atleast get some sort of boost - if not TU then some extra % effectiveness / skills boost for the games as he's likely to be doing his best to prove himself.
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 11 Apr - 18:28

Would love to see the loan market more active.

Team understanding is currently an issue with that though. Don't think players should come in on decent understanding as that is fairly unrealistic.

Would prefer to see the option for longer loan periods though, season long loans etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 11 Apr - 18:40

i think a happy medium is that players are loaned in on good or great understanding. the thing is.....loans do benefit the loan out club as it 1) gets them off the wage bill and, going forward, mean that 2) one less player in their 25 man squad and 3) there skills are boosted from playing proper games. so, three benefits there but not really substantial benefit for the club loaning the player in. currently it costs them the wages and they have a player with no understanding. i've got a player on loan at the moment but i honestly can't remember the last time i had one at Roma.
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeWed 13 Apr - 8:06

I think it would help massively with player movement

If we could have season long loans...and they gained TU for the loaning club..then it would be worth doing.

Especially if you could then renew the loan at the end of the season without losing TU


Paul!!!!!!!!!!
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Rob@Barcelona
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeWed 13 Apr - 10:50

I agree on the understanding and longer time frame changes. These would really benefit the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Has the game become too hard?   Has the game become too hard? Icon_minitimeMon 18 Apr - 22:21

I like the idea of the 25 man squad but like dan think it will slow the transfer market up, I'm trying to reduce mine and unless I drop the price or unmanaged clubs start buying it's going to be hard to get rid of my fringe players, if finally I do get to 25 and a top player becomes available or comes up through the ranks then I have to get rid of another player, however if every manager is in the same situation it will cause player supply out stripping demand which causes the price to drop, (can draw a nice graph if you want) as we do not have enough managed teams to provide the demand, we need unmanaged clubs to start buying
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