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Tom
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Paul Hemmings
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PostSubject: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeThu 11 Aug - 17:21

I'm thinking about adding this sort of thing, we have it at city now, for players aged 22, 23 and 24. maybe similar to feeder clubs with season long loans, maybe to the lower english leagues for british players, not sure about non-british players as we wont have any lower division non-english leagues next season.

youd still pay wages but the guy would be out of your 25 man squad for up to another three years once he leaves your academy allowing you to better assess whether to keep him or not.

any thoughts ? write em here
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeThu 11 Aug - 17:26

sounds great paul. would solve the problem of players turning 22 and with no football to play. what would be the maximum number of players in the youth development squad? 20 players perhaps? 40 like the academies would be surely too many? though if you're still paying the wages then i cant imagine anyone would want 40!
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeThu 11 Aug - 17:44

If it helps me trim my squad down il be happy with this implemented lol.
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeThu 11 Aug - 17:46

paul - one idea for the non-british clubs - what if each of us outside england had their elite development squads labelled "roma B" or "barcelona B" etc, all playing together in a single league pitting their wits against each other. would be a way round their not being a lower league to send players on loan to.
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeThu 11 Aug - 17:59

Super idea Stu.
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Rob@Barcelona
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 15:13

Or how about if the age limit for feeder clubs was raised to 24 or 25. Wouldn't this provide the same outlet?
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 15:23

Agreed Rob. However, I think if there was a 'B' Side for the parent clubs. Only players with a maximum CR of 90 should be allowed to play for them, arguably 88.
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 16:52

I've spoken with rob about this quite a bit and we kind of agreed that it might be too much to have FOUR teams below the first team (schoolboy, youth, reserve and 'B' under 24).

I think there should be a limit of 92cr for a potential 'B' team.

I agree with rob's idea that feeder's should be able to loan players 23 and under instead of 21 and under and paul should implement this. I still think their should be a setup for 23 and under though because i just think that its ok for foreign teams loaning players to their other foreign feeder club but for the guys who play in england they ' possibly' won't have young players good enough at leicester, fulham or whoever else that would be good enough to loan and play in the top league in spain. i'm not being condescending to those guys but its easier really for rob to loan players to argentina of course cos the standard of opposition isn't real madrid and barcelona. i'm not saying argentina is shit either, though rob would say so by his own admission and at the end of the day he's winning trophies so he doesn't care and i know he won't mind me saying that. to be fair i think his feeder team would probably beat the pants off many parent teams as it is soi'm noy sure how he'd find room for players loaned from boca, though i'm sure he would!

anyway, here's what i feel would be an idea scenario:

1) keep only three levels below the senior team:

youth team > can play players 19 or under
'B' team > can play players 23 or under
reserves > any age.

2) increase loan age to feeder clubs to 23 or under. no loans to feeders once a player is 24.

thoughts? people can then loan players to their feeders if they have a special talent that they want to be getting first team action in a weaker league environment. like i said, to have 5 teams to fill would be a bit too much i think so just adding a 'B' league or elite development squad is probably not a good idea since not that many people have 55 players to play. so i say make current schoolboy setup a 23 and under league and make the youth team 19 and under.

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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 18:19

sounds reasonable to me. I've loaned one player to Chievo/Betis all season...and he didnt play much.
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Rob@Barcelona
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 18:21

Like it.
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 18:38

this must not be another excuse for hoarding players though. We must not go back to Gareth Bale being prepared to sit in Brums reserves etc.

Anyone with a first 11 or first 18 or Senior Squad (which I assume will be created) will obviously refuse to play for the B side.

I cant imagine where you'd have a scenario that....you'd have expectations of 1st team football...but at the B side...if that makes any sense at all!
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 18:45

This is what I worry about.

Is it just an excuse, so that managers can hold onto youngsters for another 2 years rather than have to make a decision on them when they graduate from the youth academy.

Honestly, i think 22 is a little old for youth academy graduation. How many teams in real life wait until a player is 22 before promoting him to the first team.

I look at my academy players sometimes and generally if a player hasn't made it in real life before he turns 18,19 then he isn't going to be anything special.

Maybe a seperate option where players are aged 20-23 could be created.
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 18:52

well, duran nolito at barca (24) was only sold to benfica in july and jonathan soriano (25) is still in the barca B team. not technically youth academy but it more or less is.

what about keeping youth graduation at 21 but still having the 3 teams below the first team as what i suggested? i still think 2 youth leagues for 21 and under is too heavy. would be better with one 19 and under and the other 23 and under.

you wouldnt be able to hoard tho if players still came under the 25 man squad rule for those that refuse to go into the academy and i would actually encourage paul kept that.
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 19:13

But that's Barcelona Stu. Barcelona.

Having read Tom's very eloquent post, I find myself in the bizarre position of agreeing with him.
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 19:15

Raising the feeder club age limit to 23 would probably solve all this
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 19:45

i doubt paul could just do it specifically for feeder clubs tho?

if the worry is hoarding players then I dont really see how anybody could hoard players if the squad limit is still 25 players and the academy graduation stayed at 21. basically all that would change is the youth team is 19 and under and the 'B' team 23 and under. since you need 22 players for your first team and reserves all you're going to have is 3 slots for players that either wont go into the academy or players that turn 22 and you might want to keep - and could then still play in the 23 and under team. i think most people's under 23 team would most likely be 20 or 21 year olds, but upping the age just allows a bit more flexibility so that players can still get some games. doing that and making loans to feeders up to the age of 24 would be a small enough change to give people a small amount more flexibility, and if people want greater flexiblity then they are going to go over their 25 man allocation, which i suppose is then their choise if they want it to have a possible effect on their squad effectiveness.

basically, all i'm striving for is a building a bit of a bridge for players that graduate from the youth academy. this way they can still graduate and still have a game to play, tho of course you may go over the 25 man effectiveness.

an interesting point to raise is that some squads in the premier league are actually greater than 25 since under 21s dont have to be registered as part of the 25 man squad. therefor i actually think all 21 year olds should stay in the youth academy no matter how good they are. for example, in real life gareth bale isn't part of tottenham's 25 man squad because he is under 21. basically, 25 man squad should really be only players that are over 21

Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 21:02

Are you saying scrap the reserves then? I'm confused
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 21:24

in a word...

youth team = 19 and under
B team - 23 and under
reserves = any age

which means scrap schoolboy and replace with B teams

players can be loaned to feeder clubs aged 23 and under

all players 21 and under stay in youth academy
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 21:38

So you could effectively have 75 players over the age of 18???

Sorry. Don't agree
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 21:41

65. though you can already have 40 in the youth academy and the 25 first team?
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 22:00

40?
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 22:00

youth academy son
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Tom@Charlton
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 22:02

Mine is only 22
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Tom
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 22:03

is it? i've no idea what the YA limit is since i;ve only got 10 players in it. i assumed it was 40? i must be wrong then. where did rich get 75 from? :/
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PostSubject: Re: Elite Development Squads   Elite Development Squads Icon_minitimeWed 17 Aug - 22:26

Mines also 22.... lol
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