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PostSubject: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 19:51

Hi All,

I've been giving this alot of thought over the last couple of days, and I reckon i've got a decent set of ideas. It's very frustrating that we cant deal with protected clubs other than through the lottery that is the BID system.

Here are my ideas. This is for protected clubs only. Unmanaged clubs remain as is. Im sure some have been suggested before, so forgive me if im going over old ground.

SwapBid

1. Players at their real life clubs cannot be Swapped in.
2. 9999's cannot be swapped in
3. Players being swapped out must be at least '2 better' than the player being swapped in. ie. to get a 9595, you must swap in a 9795
4. Buycost plus 50% is the monetary cost of the player to be swapped out.
5. Resale value used in full.
6. No players over 32 can be swapped out
7. If swapping a player in that would then be at his real life club, ie. sending Torres back to Liverpool, then you get 150% of resale value as well, but player must still be '2 better'

i think that was it...discuss and dismiss at your leisure!
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 20:19

Sorry to burst your bubble here Rich, but Protected clubs are PROTECTED clubs.

They do not do swap deals, they do not recognise bids, in fact they do nothing at all, and the players at these clubs may as well be taken out of the game.

These clubs are inert and the only thing that they will ever do is gain team understanding.

I am afraid to say that a little bit of your life has been lost pondering this subject.

When it was first mooted by Paul to protect some higher level clubs that were being taken to the non forum game, everyone agreed to it, however I had my reservations and pointed this out at the time but went along with the general concensus.

However, the amount of clubs that have fallen under the protected banner is ludicrously high. A sledgehammer was used to crack a nut.

This means that the only clubs we can deal with are either managed clubs, which is going to result in a ridiculously inflated transfer market or winkle out an unmanaged club and try to do a swap deal for whatever meat that may remain on the bones.

Be careful what you wish for in future gentlemen, as all is never what it seems.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 20:52

Have to agree with Martin on this - until Paul decides on a change to the protected clubs status for some or all of those listed as such, they are pretty much off limits in terms of real manager transfers from what I've been told. As far as I'm aware even a BID order at a protected club won't work until this changes
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 21:23

I prefered it before when Paul was free to use his green pen
and keep the game interesting,

but since he got balled out over it and felt the need to change it so radically we are stuck with this situation,

No one wants a protected untouchable group of players but then for me I dont want an utter free for all.

This would turn the game from a strategic football management game where we have think, haggle and negotiate into a crappy fantasy football.

With so many top class players available to buy, the challenge would disappear along with half the fun.

Such games are ten a penny and can be found in all good tabloids if anyone wants to play one

Im under the impression that proctecting the clubs is a temporary measure while Paul decides how to move the game on to suit all.


(see post on real fake managers)


Last edited by Will@Fulham on Fri 18 Dec - 21:25; edited 2 times in total
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Matt@Barcelona
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 21:24

I'm with Martin on this one too. Its what was asked for, there are too many protected clubs but if these clubs were to become managed then it would make this game even better in the long run.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 21:36

Martin, i think you miss the point.

Im trying to provoke some conversation about how to improve the game and deal with protected clubs.

Im fully aware of the protected nature of clubs, although was under the impression that openbids could be placed on their players. Which I know is possible, because open bids are listed on the bids sheet.

It is absolute lunacy to suggest that 30 or so protected clubs in the english game should never be allowed to interact with the other clubs. What Im trying to do is suggest some perametres that encourages protected clubs to get as close to their real life squad as possible, to encourage more managers to stay in the game when they first join.

For example..Steve at Stockport..imagine the look on his face when he got his stockport side through and saw Luke Beckett and nothing else.

None of my life has been lost pondering the subject, i understand the current rules fully. But as all of us on this forum are the only people playing the game, then as paying customers we're entitled to make suggestions. im trying to improve the game and provoke some conversation.

After Will's discussion with Paul earlier this week, it is clear that Paul is looking to do something in the near future with regards to the protected clubs, and so Im merely sparking a debate.

In hindsite, it should perhaps be 3 x Buycost.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 21:50

agree with the x3 thing

be it swapbid, perm bid or managed by fake real manager

i dont think a 1st team player should be able to leave for much less than 3x buycost,

Buycosts are merely a guidline but ask yourself the question would you sell your first choice centre back,centre forward or midfield maestro for 2x his buycost.

i wager it wouldnt even get you thinking,so im hoping if the Real fake managers are able to trade with us theyll manage their decsions along a similar basis.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 22:06

Rich, my comments should in no way be construed as any form of attack upon you, your thought processes or your wishes to make the game more enjoyable for everyone.

If my comments were misconstrued as insulting or dismissive toward you, or just generally nihalistic, you and everyone else on this forum has my full and unreserved appologies.

However for the moment a fundamental change to the game has been implemented, which in my opinion is draconian in the way that we are able to conduct dealings.

Paul has suggested a system of 'fake/real managers' which may prove to be an improvement upon the current state of impass.

At least these clubs would or should be be willing to enter into deals of some type or other.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 22:10

At the end of the day... everyone on this forum( apart from me coz i was out of the county) asked for protected clubs... and it happened. so im with Rich on this, if Everyone can agree on some sort of rules to make the "protected" clubs become slighty more active or add Real Life Managers to the game. me and Rich@ManUtd were discussing this at work, and we said very similiar things, i like the idea of protected clubs having some way to be kept active.

like i said, if the forum ask for it.. we shall recieve so all we need to do it Agree on a Set of Rules for these clubs that dont have any Loop Holes. and im sure paul will add it to the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeFri 18 Dec - 23:49

took me a few reads to fully understand that.. so lets use Tevez as a Example..

if i he was at a unmanged club, and i swapped.. Jose Reyes... i would have to Swap Reyes Aswel as pay 200% of 25million? so thats Jose Reyes + 50million to get Tevez into my team? do you not think thats abit steap??
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:02

Yes.

Very, very steep.

But it is a lesser degree of severity than Rich@ Leicester & Will @Fulham are proposing. Evil or Very Mad

This only would as I have suggested only apply to PROTECTED clubs, of which there are way too many. At least 50% of which were previously unmanaged.


Last edited by Martin@Lazio on Sat 19 Dec - 0:09; edited 1 time in total
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:09

Yeah, i believe alot of the protected clubs should go from being Protected to just unmanaged. Maybe for starters we should all make a list of which clubs we believe should be protected??

that way we can atleast get some activity in the game started while we debate the protected clubs?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:17

You should see some of the clubs that are now PROTECTED. Shocked Shocked Shocked

It is laughable to the degree of utter disbelief!!!!!!

I am utilising my season ticket holder status and getting scout orders on clubs from all over Europe as it costs me nothing, believe me there is very little left.


Last edited by Martin@Lazio on Sat 19 Dec - 0:26; edited 1 time in total
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:20

well i dont know what teams are protected outside of england, but i only believe the teams in the Premier League should be protected.

but im sure there will be alot of people who disagree and want only certain teams in the premier League.

but thats what the debate is for lol
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:26

what we've got to remember on the swap deals is that it will always weaken the unmanaged team, none of us would give a player who we think is better than the player coming to our team.

maybe what needs looking at is how to get more managers in so we have 'real' managers to deal with?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:29

Matt@Barcelona wrote:
what we've got to remember on the swap deals is that it will always weaken the unmanaged team, none of us would give a player who we think is better than the player coming to our team.

maybe what needs looking at is how to get more managers in so we have 'real' managers to deal with?

Perhaps Paul should embark on a small advertising campaign.

Or a large national campaign. The Chairman says organise one for us. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:39

Phil@Arsenal wrote:
took me a few reads to fully understand that.. so lets use Tevez as a Example..

if i he was at a unmanged club, and i swapped.. Jose Reyes... i would have to Swap Reyes Aswel as pay 200% of 25million? so thats Jose Reyes + 50million to get Tevez into my team? do you not think thats abit steap??

surely cash payments to protected clubs is pointless though as it does not benefit them in the slightest? for example, if phil paid an unmanaged club 50m plus reyes for Tevez, and the following week the unmanaged club became managed, whoever took over wouldnt see the 50m. sure it'd drain phil's balance sheet and make the players transferred report look lovely but it wouldnt actually serve a purpose. maybe you should have to offer two players of atleast a certain rating to swap a player in, or more players for lesser rated ones. atleast this would strengthen the unmanaged side.

i.e

swap in 9999 = swap out 1x 9999 + 1x 9797
swap in 9997 = swap out 1x 9999 or 2x 9797
swap in 9797 = swap out 1x 9999 or 2x 9797

etc etc

matt is bang on with his comment their on swapping players out - everyone loves to flog a dead horse and nobody would ever dream of giving an unmanaged club a better or silmilar player, so hence why they are always full of turd 9797s etc. but atleast this way you would have to give up something extra from your squad instead of just paying money


Last edited by Stuart@Roma on Sat 19 Dec - 0:44; edited 1 time in total
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Phil@Watford
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 0:41

the only problem with having more actual managers.... is that paul then gets overloaded with to many turns and isnt able to process them on time...

also, if we get our friends to join it tuns into a conspirecy lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 12:38

the only protected clubs in the game should be sides that are of prestige. i.e they have won european trophies and league championships in the modern age (otherwise teams like Preston and Blackpool would claim such status with their 'heritage').

so, basically...only Spurs, Villa, Man City and Liverpool of the current unmanaged sides should be protected. should Nottingham Forest and Leeds be included.....i think not given their current RL level....but up for debate i guess. the rest should be at the mercy of being labelled unmanaged and open for swaps etc.

the best thing i guess would be that you pay the TV ontop of a player swap and then the unmanaged club has some sort of AI where they buy someone off the transfer market or from a non league or other unmanaged club lower in the league pyramid. this would atleast ensure the leagues have a progression of ability levels. at the moment its a bit silly cos league two Portsmouth have a better squad than most of the Championship.

I appreciate Martin's idea on page one but does it really have to be this confusing. TV plus the swap of a player. or maybe TV x 2 plus swap if we really want to go overboard and i'm fine with that as long as Paul can make these UM and protected sides competitive and that they use the money to buy players in the transfer market. there is little point paying those clubs all that money if they are not using it and it just goes out of the game. Otherwise we may aswell adopt the idea i posted earlier of giving them say two players for one. or more. atleast then these clubs are given more strength.

the clearer the system the better, i am up for anything as long as it means these UM and protected sides are competitive and that the money doesn't just disappear from the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSat 19 Dec - 19:59

I dont mean to blow off all of the suggestions on the "Protected Clubs" but if im honest.. before the "Split" in the game... the unmanaged blubs system worked Perfectly fine, no-one complained about it.. Currently all 6 teams are protected in the premier league and... 1 team protected and 3 unmanaged in the top flight league in italy.. so why do we need all the Rules for protected clubs... why not just make about 90% of the current teams Protected.... Unmanaged. because i wouldnt quite say the Italian League has been raped, some of the managers over there think its more competative then England.. so why not make everyone below the premiership "unmanaged" and if Villa, Blackburn, Reading go down then they become unmanaged, yess people will bid for there players... but then its for Paul to decide which is the best bid coming in?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSun 20 Dec - 0:03

Phil...Italy is not as strong as it was 2/3 seasons ago and is in no way as hard a league as England. There really are'nt many players to be raped of at the unmanaged clubs (including Fiorentina, Parma etc). The one protected being Napoli are'nt even a decent side. Serie B is a pretty shabby league aswell. The only thing these clubs have are their TU. Jamie's Ancona side are probably better than a few of Serie A. In fact, by the end of this season, i expect a few Serie C clubs will be stronger than say Genoa and Cagliari. that aside i don't think their should be all these protected clubs in england. like rich said somewhere, seems a little silly that there's 20 clubs that you guys can't do dealings with, its hard enough that you have the restrictions their. seems a bit silly that clubs like Reading are protected.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSun 20 Dec - 19:20

itd actually be 4x the value though wouldnt it will? assuming your suggesting that your idea includes the players swap values? so if you swapped in a 9595 worth 6m he'd cost 18m + 6m swap value and then you receive the TV of the player you swapped out....which in most cases is a turdy 35 yo worth not much so said player would be rediculously priced. i think 2x plus swap value is fine...this way if you swapped in said 9595 worth 6m he'd cost you 12m plus your player. i wouldnt pay more than that for a 9595...you're in dreamland will if you think no person on the forum wouldnt sell a 9595 for 2x his value. id sell any of mine for double unless i thought he needs reviewing. 9797s tend to be valued at what 11m? i am of the opinion that 22m plus the players' value in a swap is perfectly adequate....the selling unmanaged club would have 25m or more + a player. but i'm only happy thatn rules are changed if the AI is going to then use that money to buy a player or two off the TL to improve their squad.

what you are forgetting in your proposal will is that not all managers demand 50 million for a player, so their needs to be some equalibrium i feel. i do not operate my club within these bounds so why should i have to be penalised by being forced to play the game the same as tom or mark or anybody else might? I'd also like to add that your idea will have dire consequences for all clubs outisde the top flight. revenue streams are pretty tight as it is and would Rich and Dan@S really want to endorse an idea where they would have to pay 18m plus the difference in swap value for a 9595? i tend to think not. i certainly wouldnt.
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSun 20 Dec - 19:35

your also forgetting if ur talking about 4x the TV value of a player, then i highly doubt Anyone would buy the players off these clubs and there for the new system would be a waste of time.... x2 the players TV + the player is most likley more the fair... and then paul makes these clubs Active in the market and were sorted...


- x2player TV + Player
- player must atleast be of the same PTCR or Higher
- fake real managers active in the transfer market

any other rules need to be added? if it is just those 3.. then we can get paul on here and let him know and hey-presto protected clubs are gone and active clubs are here.

the only thing i think, is... do cash openbids mean anything to these clubs?
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSun 20 Dec - 19:47

IMO players should be transferred for 2.5 times their TV in an openbid. this would value a 9595 worth 6m at 15m in a straight cash deal and a 9797 worth 11m 27.5m. i feel that is on a market level. or atleast one i can compete within it without being blown out
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PostSubject: Re: Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs   Suggestions for Transfers from/to Protected Clubs Icon_minitimeSun 20 Dec - 20:26

well that's easy enough! lol

so basicly we just need people to AGREE and we can get the wheels in motion and instead of talking about it... actualy make it happen. Smile

"- x2player TV + Player
- player must atleast be of the same PTCR or Higher
- fake real managers active in the transfer market"

+

- players can be bought for 2.5xTV Value?

gives me a idea Idea
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